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The Forum · debates

Fair Go

Debates on the questions families argue about, with the evidence for both sides. Two computer-generated, fictional characters argue it out, and every claim either of them makes is checked and sourced underneath. Written out in full, to read.

Who’s debating?

John Tolley and Col are computer-generated, fictional characters. John, as he tells it, is a retired public-finance economist, English-born and in Melbourne since the seventies, who spent his working life costing government programs. Col, as he tells it, is an ex-shearer grandad from Qld; you may know him from Over the Fence. Marj, from Doing What You Know, joins a later debate. Neither is real. John is no relation to anyone at the NDIA or in this debate.

Nothing here is advice about your child, your plan or your family.

How a debate works here

Each side argues the strongest honest version of its case, not a cartoon of it. Every factual claim, from either side, is checked, and the source is in the table under the debate. When a claim doesn’t survive the check, the other side says so in the debate, with the source. Each debate ends with what the two of them agree on.

Where this is up to

Debate one is written out and recorded, with computer-generated voices for John and Col, and you can watch them debate it on the stage. Shane at ParkSyde read it through on 22 October 2026.

Debate one

The Great Rort?

Motion: that the NDIS is Australia’s greatest policy failure. John Tolley for, Col against.

It answers a published argument: ‘The Great Rort: the NDIS is Australia’s most expensive policy failure’, by Dimitri Burshtein and Peter Swan (The Spectator Australia, 14 March 2026), discussed on Sky News Australia’s The World According to Rowan Dean in October 2026. John argues that case at its strongest. Neither character speaks for, imitates or quotes the authors beyond what they published.

John and Col walk on · 7 min 43

John’s and Col’s voices are computer-generated. Every word they say is written out below.

Watch John and Col debate it on the stage, with captions, or on YouTube.

Opening, for the motion: John

John Tolley. I’m made up, computer-generated, and I used to cost government programs for a living. I’ll be arguing the motion, and I’d like to do it properly.

In 2011 the Productivity Commission designed this scheme for about four hundred thousand people, at around thirteen and a half billion dollars a year. Today it has seven hundred and eighty thousand participants, and it paid out fifty-one and a half billion dollars last financial year. That’s nearly twice the people and more than three times the cost.

More than half of participants are eighteen or under. About fifteen in every hundred six-year-old boys in Australia are on it. Autism is now the main disability for around four in ten.

Now, the strongest evidence isn’t from a columnist. Two economists at the Australian National University used the staggered rollout of the scheme as a natural experiment. They found the NDIS itself caused about a third of the rise in reported autism, and nearly half of new child diagnoses since 2013. Age at diagnosis didn’t change. Girls didn’t catch up. Their reading is that the threshold for diagnosis came down, because a diagnosis opened the door to funding.

That’s not a story about bad families. It’s a story about incentives. The scheme has no co-payment and no means test. If a child improves, the funding can shrink. If they stay eligible, it continues. Providers are paid by the hour. Of two hundred and eighty thousand providers, fewer than twenty thousand are registered. The agency’s own fraud lead told a parliamentary inquiry that the incentives in this market are misaligned, and put integrity leakage at about eight per cent. That’s three point seven billion dollars a year.

A program that grows faster than its design, rewards staying in rather than getting better, and can’t see where eight per cent of its money goes is not a minor disappointment. And if it loses public support, the first people to lose out will be the ones with the highest needs. That’s why I’m for the motion.

Opening, against the motion: Col

Col. Also made up, also computer-generated. Ex-shearer, grandad, and not a lawyer or a planner. I’m against the motion, and I’ll start by agreeing with half of what John said, because most of it is true.

The scheme is bigger than it was designed to be. A diagnosis did become the gateway. The market isn’t working the way anyone hoped. The government’s own independent review said all of that in 2023.

But a policy failure is a policy that doesn’t do what it was for, at a cost that isn’t worth it. So let’s ask what it was for.

Before 2013, families of children with high support needs waited years on state lists, or got nothing. The scheme was built so that disability wouldn’t depend on which state you lived in, or how loudly you could argue. For hundreds of thousands of people with permanent and significant disability, that’s what it does. It’s the first time many of them have had any choice at all.

The 2023 review had a phrase for what went wrong. It called the NDIS an oasis in the desert. It’s the only reliable support, because almost everything around it, in schools, in health, in the community, is thin. If the only well in the district is the NDIS, everyone walks to it. Most of them aren’t lying about being thirsty.

John says the threshold came down. I’ll take the evidence as it stands. But a child diagnosed in 2023 who might not have been in 2010 is still a child who needs something. The fix the review recommended isn’t to call that child a rort. It’s to dig more wells. Supports in schools, in playgroups, at the GP, outside the scheme. That’s exactly what Thriving Kids is meant to be.

And growth has already fallen, from nineteen per cent a year to five, and Parliament has legislated to slow it further. A failure doesn’t usually turn its own curve around.

Rebuttal: John

Col says the scheme is being fixed. I’d say it’s being fixed because it failed. Nobody legislates thirty-seven billion dollars of savings over four years for a success.

And "dig more wells" is fair, but notice who’s paying for the wells: the same taxpayers, again, through state budgets that one state hasn’t even signed up to. Meanwhile the oasis stays open to everyone already there.

On fraud, I’ve been careful. I said leakage, not fraud. But eight per cent of fifty billion is real money, and the agency says it can’t measure how much of it is criminal. When you can’t count it, you can’t control it.

Rebuttal: Col

On fraud, thank you for being careful, because the programme that started this argument wasn’t. It put suspicious claims at anywhere from ten to twenty per cent. The highest official figure is six to ten per cent, and that includes honest billing errors and missing paperwork. The Grattan Institute puts the fraud part of the government’s savings at about two per cent. Real crime should be prosecuted. It shouldn’t be used to tar seven hundred and eighty thousand people.

Two other ideas came up on that programme, and they don’t survive a check. Australia isn’t the most disabled nation in the world. About one in five Australians has a disability, roughly the same as Europe, and the definitions differ too much to rank countries anyway. And it floated screens as a cause of autism. They aren’t. The best review of the research found the link disappears once you account for which studies get published. Autism is mostly inherited.

Which matters, because the cost John is worried about is real, but it lands on families as suspicion. Parents of autistic kids hear “rort” and think it’s about them.

Questions

John: Col, if the threshold came down because of funding, shouldn’t some children leave the scheme?

Col: Some, yes. But only when there’s somewhere to go. Moving a child off the NDIS into nothing doesn’t save money. It moves the cost to schools, hospitals and parents who give up work. That’s why the order matters. The other supports have to be there first.

Col: John, you said it’s the greatest policy failure. Greater than what? What’s your measure?

John: Cost against design, mostly. Nothing else has missed its own estimate by that much and kept growing.

Col: Then it’s the most expensive surprise. That’s not the same as the greatest failure. A scheme can cost more than anyone planned and still be worth more than it costs. Nobody has done that sum properly since 2011. That’s a gap we could both ask for.

John: I’ll give you that. Nobody has measured what the scheme returns, in work, in health, in carers back in jobs. I’d want that number before I vote for or against anything.

Closing, for the motion: John

I’ll keep my vote. Not because the people on the scheme don’t deserve support. Because a scheme that rewards entry and can’t measure leakage puts the support of the people who need it most at risk. Fix the incentives, fund the supports around it, and target the scheme at permanent and significant disability, the way it was designed. If that’s done, ask me again in five years.

Closing, against the motion: Col

I’ll keep mine. A greatest failure would be a policy that didn’t help the people it was for. This one does, for most of them, for the first time. It grew because everything around it was missing. The honest fix is to build the rest of the system, not to use the word rort about people who walked to the only well there was.

Where they agree

  • The scheme is far larger than designed, and that has to be dealt with.
  • A diagnosis became the gateway to funding. That’s a design problem, not a family problem.
  • Supports outside the NDIS, in schools, health and the community, are the missing piece.
  • "Leakage" is not the same as fraud. Prosecute the fraud. Fix the errors.
  • Nobody has measured what the scheme returns. Someone should.

Every factual claim in the debate, with where it comes from:

ClaimSourceStatus
The article exists, 14 Mar 2026, Burshtein & Swan; no co-payment or means test; incentives point to expansionspectator.com.au/2026/03/the-great-rort/Confirmed
2011 design: around 410,000 people; gross cost just over $13.5bn a yearProductivity Commission 2011, Disability Care and Support, overview, pp. 12 and 44Confirmed (read in the original)
782,013 participants at 30 Jun 2026; $51.5bn paid in the 12 months to 30 Jun 2026NDIA Quarterly Report Q4 2025–26Confirmed
51.7% aged 0–18; ~15% of 6-year-old boysNDIA Q4 2025–26Confirmed ("more than half are eighteen or under")
Autism the primary disability for ~40–45%NDIA Q4 2025–26; OECD 2026Confirmed as a range ("around four in ten")
NDIS caused a 32% rise in reported autism prevalence, 47% of new child diagnoses since 2013; no change in age at diagnosis; lowered thresholdRanjan & Breunig 2025, Journal of Health EconomicsConfirmed (peer-reviewed)
280,258 active providers, 18,309 registeredNDIA Q4 2025–26, Table D.20Confirmed
"Incentives are misaligned"; integrity leakage ~8.3%, ~$3.7bn; no statistically valid way to measure the fraud shareJohn Dardo (NDIA) to a parliamentary inquiry, AAP, ~1 May 2026Confirmed
6–10% "non-compliant, incorrect or fraudulent"NDIA 2023; ANAOConfirmed (secondary)
Fraud is about 2% of the $37.8bn savingsGrattan Institute 2026Confirmed
$37.8bn savings over four years2026–27 BudgetConfirmed
Growth 19% → 10% → 5%NDIA payments, 2023–24 to 2025–26Confirmed
"Oasis in the desert"; foundational supportsNDIS Review final report, 7 Dec 2023Confirmed
21.4% of Australians have a disability; EU 23.9–26.8%ABS SDAC 2022; Eurostat EU-SILCConfirmed; definitions differ
Screen-time and autism link not supported after correcting for publication biasOphir, Y et al. 2023, ‘Screen time and autism spectrum disorder: a systematic review and meta-analysis’, JAMA Network Open, 6(12), e2346775 (46 studies); a 2024 systematic review rated the evidence very lowConfirmed
Autism is mostly inheritedBai, D et al. 2019, ‘Association of genetic and environmental factors with autism in a 5-country cohort’, JAMA Psychiatry, 76(10), 1035–43: heritability about 80%, two million children in Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Israel and Western AustraliaConfirmed
No recent rigorous cost-benefit evaluationPC 2011 is the last full estimateConfirmed as a gap

Left out on purpose. A video clip from the broadcast showing one provider’s office, with the suburb named: it invites suspicion of a whole community, not a policy. A saying attributed on air to a former politician, which could not be sourced. Any voice, impression or likeness of the real people involved. Figures accessed 21 October 2026; check before relying on them.

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